Interview – Claire MacKay, The Herbalist
By D Elisabeth Aymett, One of the Three Wee Lasses of OHP
Let’s be honest here.
How many of us have fantasized about being Claire Fraser, an herbal
healer in the Highlands of Scotland?
Well, OHP was delighted to sit down with Claire (okay, her last name is
MacKay, but we won’t quibble…) the real life herbalist, who was a consultant for
Outlander, Season One. Anyone interested in attending a workshop with Claire? Plan on attending Tartan Week in NYC in April 2016! Claire also wrote a segment on Jacobite Herbal Medicine for the new Outlandish Companion coming out later this month on the 27th.
By D Elisabeth Aymett, One of the Three Wee Lasses of OHP
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| Taken in the gardens of Claire & Geillis at Culross Palace, Fife. |
OHP: When were you contacted about working on
Outlander?
Claire: In 2013, before Outlander started filming, I
was working as the manager of an herbal medicine practice in the Highlands,
along with my husband. We were on an
estate which was overlooked by an 18th century building, living a
very quiet life (does any of this start
seeming eerily familiar???). At the
time, I was researching traditional Highland herbal medicine and focusing on
how they would’ve used the plants back then. I kept thinking “how on earth did they know
what these plants were used for?”
OHP: Good question! (And can we say here, talk about right place, right time?)
Claire: I was quite immersed in my research when I
got a call from production asking me if I’d heard of Outlander and might I be
interested in meeting with Ron. Well, I
didn’t know who Ron D. Moore was, so when I got off the phone, I looked him up
on the internet and then I thought “oh my!”
OHP: I bet!
Claire: I’d been studying 18th century
highland herbal medicine when I was contacted by the show. When I started reading the book, the first
thing I noticed was that the main character is named Claire and that she’s
going back in time and studying herbs and I thought, “is this the Truman Show?”
It seemed like it was my life written in the book; that made
it extra special for me from the very beginning. So I went to meet Ron, thinking I’d meet with
his assistant or someone first. But when
I walked into the room, it was really him!
OHP: Ron seems to be extraordinarily invested in
getting the details right for this series.
Claire: Yes, he is.
We talked a bit about the script and then he asked me if I’d be
interested in consulting on the series.
Of course, I said yes!
I kept
reading the series of books and later spoke to Diana. I mean, as I read on, I realized the level of
research she did. As a researcher
myself, I noted that she has references to plants and uses that are not common
knowledge among herbalists! I was really
curious about her sources and her interest, so I contacted her. When I introduced myself, she said she couldn’t
believe they were going to this level of detail and authenticity.
OHP: So, that leads into my next question of how
authentic and accurate did you find the herbal references to be in the book/TV
series?
Claire: With one or two exceptions, very
accurate. For example, there’s a mention
in the book about Davy Beaton using Pennyroyal to treat an injured finger. While that wouldn’t necessarily be the first
choice, Pennyroyal is a member of the
mint family and has volatile oils which act as an antiseptic.
OHP: Well, apparently, Davy Beaton wasn’t that
great a healer, so maybe that accounts for that strange choice? (laughing again)
Claire: Yes.
Maybe Diana was being cunning when she had him using a plant that wasn’t
the best. The way she uses the plants in
her books, I think, is quite original. I think she was an herbalist in a past
life!
OHP: Well, we know Diana is a scientist and used
to doing extensive research.
Claire: She is extremely well-researched. I have a great admiration of her from a
research point of view. She’s been an
inspiration. She’s recently asked me to
do a short history of the use of Highland herbs, which is going to be coming
out in the new Outlandish Companion on October of 27th. That also happens to be a full moon!
(And, close to Samhain….hmmm, time to take a trip to Craig Na Dun?). I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but Diana
does like her moon references in the Outlander series.
OHP: Yes, she does. So that’s accurate as well? The harvesting
references?
Claire: Yes, it is.
When Claire talks to Roger at Fraser’s Ridge in one of the later books
about when to harvest the plants, flowers and seeds, that’s all true about the
different types of predators and why some plants are better harvested at night
and some during day and certain cycles of the moon. So the chemicals are secreted at different
times to be most effective and that’s when the chemical values are highest.
I teach in my workshops that some of the things that must
seem like superstition from the 18th century, when you look at them
now with scientific perspective, we can see that there is logic and truth to
it. What they said back then would’ve branded them as heretics.
OHP: So that leads me to my next question. Healers, or Wise Women, in the 18th
century were often targets for accusations of witchcraft, as we saw in Claire’s
and Gellis’ case. How did you feel about
the episodes of By the Pricking of My
Thumbs and the The Devil’s Mark?
Claire: (Laughing) Well, as an herbalist now, I’m so
glad that I wasn’t around in the 18th century! I would definitely have been burned for a
witch, no question. So, of course, I
have a tremendous empathy for the people, especially women, who were caught up
in that horrendous situation. I’ve read
a lot of the history and oftentimes, people used the accusation of witchcraft just
to get back at a neighbor who had annoyed them, for example. It was more than a wee bit wicked. The healers certainly didn’t deserve to die
because of it.
The Wise Women, the healers, sort of flew under the radar
then, so to speak. Medicine was just
beginning to be more academically inclined, but women weren’t really allowed to
University. Medicine was taught in
Latin, and, of course, the wee wifeys and Wise Women of the Highlands weren’t
taught Latin. So men appropriated the
study of medicine and started to cut women out of the healing arts.
OHP: So, two centuries later, how different do you
feel things are in the attitude of “recognized” medicine towards the
effectiveness of herbal or alternative medicine?
Claire: I feel the struggle has always been there
between orthodox medicine and herbalism.
Whether you’re looking at it from the religious point of view in
persecuting healers as witches or from the medical point of view, the herbalist
has had to struggle to justify her traditional practice by using scientific
evidence to support her healing methods.
Not many people know this, but herbal medicine was banned between
1941 and 1958 in the UK. But the same
government that banned herbal medicine, with the exception of “qualified”
doctors, also requested that women go into the hills and harvest things like
rosehips and yarrow to be used for the soldiers during WWII. There was a high incidence of scurvy, so they
harvested the rosehips to prevent it.
OHP: What a contradiction!
Claire: Yes! I think it comes down to power, control
and money. I realize concerns of safety
are there between orthodox medicine and herbalism, and practices which seem
questionable to the masses. However, I
think now we’re open to discussions of the knowledge. During the burning times, people would not
have been able to share this knowledge of cures and herbal medicine without
risking their lives.
Now there’s more of an element of science in determining why
the herbal cures are effective. I think
we’re coming back full cycle. I tend to
think of modern medicine as the sort of rebellious teenage child of
herbalism. Before there were
“pharmaceuticals”, there was herbalism.
Doctors used herbs to treat patients.
Then came modern pharmaceuticals, but it’s really not separate from
herbal medicine.
Watch this video of how an ancient herbal recipe is effective against MRSA.
OHP: That’s a great analogy. So, my fellow bloggers asked me to make sure
I asked you about the infamous scene in Wentworth where Black Jack Randall uses
lavender to …(I didn’t even get to finish
this question).
Claire: (groaning) Oh, that breaks my heart! That was just a wicked, wicked thing to
do. That scent, lavender, is so
recognizable. It’s hard not to love it
and most people do.
OHP: Would it have aided healing or would it just
have soothed?
Claire: Oh, lavender is an absolute healer, but I
don’t know why Black Jack would’ve used that. I think we have to ask Diana. Perhaps he was trying to sort of trick
Jamie’s senses. Essential oils access
the deepest part of the brain, the limbic system. You know a certain smell can trigger memories,
even taking you back to childhood. So I
don’t know if it was manipulation of Jamie’s senses or what. But I find that to be the cruelest thing
because it’s such a healing plant and later it causes real trouble for
Jamie. I find it to be the most
heartbreaking use of lavender imaginable.
Lavender is actually a sedative. It has a unique way of calming the
senses. It can aid sleep, reduce pain
because it’s an anti-inflammatory and even has antiseptic qualities. I use it in so many of my remedies. Some people find it too relaxing. It’s quite amazing actually.
OHP: So it really is that powerful?
Claire: Yes and I feel it’s such a tragedy for poor
Jamie!
OHP: We were also curious about the Lily of the
Valley. Did the Monks actually bring
that from Germany and does it look that similar to wood garlic?
Claire: Yes and yes.
Lily of the Valley is easy to confuse
There are also a number of archeological sites where they’ve
been able to identify that monks were there from the non-native plants that
were found. One of those would have been
the thorn apple Claire used to treat Ned Gowan’s asthma. Did you notice that when he inhaled from his
little pipe he had that sort of satisfied smile? Well, thorn apple is also a
narcotic, in a recreational way.
OHP: Ohhhh! (Caution,
before some of you go out and start cultivating, read on…)
Claire: I don’t know if many people know that, but
if you take too much, it’s toxic. There
was a time when people were smoking gypsum weed and dying of it, but it is a
very effective medicine. That, too, was brought to the UK by the monks.
OHP: So when you worked as a consultant on
Outlander, did you work with Cait and Lotte or more with the writing staff?
Claire: I didn’t work with Lotte, but I did have the
pleasure of working with Cait. She’s a
lovely person. We discussed the use of
potions and applications of plants and how to think about the plants used in
the script. That was a lovely part of
the job. Other than that it was mostly
going through the script and making suggestions for accuracy.
OHP: We hear it’s a really fun set and wonderful
working environment they have there. Any
funny stories you can share?
Claire: Well, one of the drivers, Davie, and this was
before they’d cast Cait, walked up to the car where I was sitting and asked me
something. He introduced himself as Davie
and I asked him if he was one of the actors. He said no, just a driver and
asked who I was. I answered that I was
Claire, the Herbalist. He said, “Oh,
you’re Claire! Well done!” Then he
walked away and it was only a few minutes later that I realized he thought I’d
been cast as Claire on the show.
OHP: It is quite the coincidence about your name,
your being an herbalist and being from the Highlands, just like Claire Fraser. In addition to the presentations during Tartan
week, you run some demonstrations and tours in Scotland. Please tell us about that.
Claire: Yes, we’re running tours and workshops at
some of the Outlander sets, notably the gardens around Culross Palace, where
filming of the scenes of Claire working in the garden outside Leoch took
place. I’m also working with Historic
Scotland doing some living history workshops dealing with herbal medicine
during the Jacobite period. Some of
those take place at Doune Castle, which was used for the exteriors of Leoch.
There are also some Outlander Herbal workshops where you can come and make your
own ointments and learn about the plants used in the books. I’m also working on
a residential workshop for May of 2016 for Outlander Herbal which will focus on
remedies used in the book series. Still
working on the details of that.
Claire MacKay studied herbal medicine at the The Scottish School of Herbal Medicine and graduated from Napier College in Edinburgh. For more information on Claire and the work she does, visit her website http://www.highlandherbs.co.uk/
That was a great interview, really enjoyed it.
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